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Give and get support around quitting

"They Paved Paradise And Put Up A Parking Lot"

      I received a very disheartening message last night from someone who has been here awhile.

               What it said was they were considering leaving the site.

Why? The moderation and censorship that has been put in place.

I'd like to discuss when and why these restrictions came into play.

The moderation came into play after 2 days of uncontrolled spamming.

Why was it uncontrolled? BECAUSE THERE WAS NO ONE HERE TO TAKE CARE OF IT.

The profanity filter came into play after profane personal attacks were made on members that sat for two days, unmoderated.

And, why was it uncontrolled? BECAUSE NO ONE WAS HERE TO TAKE CARE OF IT.

I realize they had a bunch of people working long and hard to prevent these problems from continuing but look at the resultI

IS THIS SITE GOING TO HAVE A FULL TIME MODERATOR, 24/7 or even 12/7  (by moderator, I mean someone who can get to the site to fix a problem) OR ARE THEY JUST GOING TO CONTINUE CLAMPING DOWN ON OUR FREEDOMS BECAUSE IT'S EASIER FOR THEM, Institutionalizing people's original ideas, moving posts, etc?

If you're trying to help someone and your comment is unseen because it is in moderation because of some algorithm/filter , you've helped no one.

I myself am not leaving yet, just asking.

35 Replies

MarilynH
Member

Thanks Dale, a perfect song for our situation, yay for Joni Mitchell and she's Canadian.

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CommunityAdmin
Community Manager
Community Manager

JonesCarpeDiem‌ said:

The moderation came into play after 2 days of uncontrolled spamming.

Why was it uncontrolled? BECAUSE THERE WAS NO ONE HERE TO TAKE CARE OF IT.

Spamming started on wee hours of April 11th.  The controls that were in place to prevent spam since we launched on Jive were largely disabled and that's why it happened.  We first worked to get rid of the spam starting the morning of 4/11 (over 4K posts in total over the course of 24 hrs) and then to restore the settings to prevent an ongoing attack. Within the first 36 hours spam was completely removed and the spam prevention services restored.  We added some additional controls in response to those large scale attacks and it has successfully prevented several attacks since then.

JonesCarpeDiem‌ said:

The profanity filter came into play after profane personal attacks were made on members that sat for two days, unmoderated.

And, why was it uncontrolled? BECAUSE NO ONE WAS HERE TO TAKE CARE OF IT.

cathnolan1's comment  was posted but was never marked as abuse so I wasn't aware of it. Had I known about it, it likely would have been addressed within 24 hrs. 

Other comments were made on 6/1-6/2 and an abuse report was sent by cathnolan1 on 6/2 followed by private messages and emails from other members about cathnolan1. I temporarily(I was traveling at the time) banned cathnolan1 until I could assess the situation on 6/2 and 6/3.  I got in contact with ShawnP while in transit to cease any ongoing comments. The morning of 6/3 just the personal attacks were removed from the thread. 

JonesCarpeDiem‌ said:

IS THIS SITE GOING TO HAVE A FULL TIME MODERATOR, 24/7 or even 12/7 (by moderator, I mean someone who can get to the site to fix a problem) OR ARE THEY JUST GOING TO CONTINUE CLAMPING DOWN ON OUR FREEDOMS BECAUSE IT'S EASIER FOR THEM, Institutionalizing people's original ideas, moving posts, etc?

If you're trying to help someone and your comment is unseen because it is in moderation because of some algorithm/filter , you've helped no one.

For the forseeable future there won't be a moderator 24/7. There just isn't that much activity currently. And once the controls are adjusted this should be less of an issue.  There really isn't that much automatic spam filtered items in moderation(and will hopefully be less in the near future) so to have someone paid to sit around doing nothing would be not beneficial to the site. I'm checking the site from 7am Eastern until 11pm Eastern 7 days a week often releasing things shortly after they are posted on weekdays. 

Moderators usually have very limited control. Hopefully if Jive can help us get the issue ironed out that this will become less of an issue. Moderating is not easy in the 10+ years I've been doing it, but it's a necessary thing. Hopefully it happens rarely though as it's not a fun thing. I have read a number of threads from over the years where people left for a while or permanently because disputes were handled between members because there wasn't consistent order. I'm sad that happened and would really like to avoid that in the future. I'm here to help.

Sometimes we do move content to ensure it gets the most visibility.  Sometimes things are posted somewhere where they won't be seen.  This community's members produce great posts and we want as many people (members, lurkers and guests) to benefit from them as possible. Curation of community content happens in all communities. Honestly, I move less than 1 post a week and nearly all posts I ask before I move it. As time goes on it happens less and less. Questions about using the community that are widely beneficial to the masses are moved to Community Help‌ and posts about quitting that are put in Community Help‌ are moved to Conversations‌. I'm methodical about that to reduce clutter. 

We don't institutionalize ideas. We only remove personal attacks and solicitation. The remainder of a person's comments are left untouched. 

I'll respond to some of the other comments that were made a little bit later!

Mark
EX Community Manager

EX Community Admin Team
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I emailed you immediately about the spam attack and when the cathnolan event began.

so, I don't think your descriptions add much to what I've said. They sound more like excuseplanations.

"to have someone paid to sit around doing nothing would be not beneficial to the site."

Yes, I understand filters are cheaper.

If there's no activity on the site, I don't know why I'm here.

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how many people work at eX. why can't someone be available to block spam or profanity if they are sent a text?

It could be anyone who works there and is on the clock and not even need to be the same person all the time.

What happens now when we report something? Who responds? And why isn't there someone who could do that when the regular person is on the road.

What I'm saying is what Nancy said. No one has to be actually sitting here 24/7

It's rare that we have a spam attack or a profanity problem.

Why couldn't a few people at eX be notified of a report and be given a few points of instruction as to how to handle the few situations that arise instead of clamping down with filters?

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CommunityAdmin
Community Manager
Community Manager

jonescarp.aka.dale.Jan_2007 wrote:

I emailed you immediately about the spam attack and when the cathnolan event began.

so, I don't think your descriptions add much to what I've said. They sound more like excuseplanations.

Spam started in early morning hours and I started handling it as soon as my work day started 7am Central. Similarly the issue with Cathnolan1 was addressed quickly. The actual posts were edited after I properly documented the situation.

jonescarp.aka.dale.Jan_2007 wrote: 

"to have someone paid to sit around doing nothing would be not beneficial to the site."

Yes, I understand filters are cheaper.

If there's no activity on the site, I don't know why I'm here.

There isn't much spam or things that are reported as abuse so largely anyone employed to do so would be doing nothing.  That's what I meant by no activity.  Hopefully there won't  ever be a need for an around the clock moderator. Actual spam is caught by the filter and is not shown on the site so it doesn't matter if it is moderated within an hour or 5 weeks.  Legitimate posts that are improperly flagged as spam will hopefully be resolved in the near future.  elvan‌ will be helping us and Jive as she's been most affected by it. I'm excited for it to be resolved too.

Mark
EX Community Manager

EX Community Admin Team
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elvan
Member

I am dismayed...seriously.  This site saved my life more than once, the people I have met here and I have maintained relationships with will ALWAYS be in my life.  I feel like it is my responsibility now to pay it forward...as long as I can.  I really hope that we can come to some sort of solution.  

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Giulia
Member

enterprise collaboration tools

Sort of says it all.  

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YUUUUUUP!

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CommunityAdmin
Community Manager
Community Manager

Giulia wrote:

enterprise collaboration tools

Sort of says it all.  

There is an amazing amount of collaboration going on here!

Jive and other similar platforms have many uses across many communities across many topics. There isn't any community made solely for EX.  Facebook and Inuit are two companies that have built their own online communities. There are a lot of upsides to doing so but also some downsides.  

Similarly, I've never bought a house or a car that fits me perfectly. They fit me pretty good but there is always something that is missing.  But, I make the best of what I got.  With my house at least there is some potential to make it better. Jive adds features once to twice a year and fixes issues multiple times a year. Definitely didn't have that with Elgg.

Mark
EX Community Manager

EX Community Admin Team
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