Thank You Dale/Vaping Kills

[karenjones]

I just read a curious blog which I suspect was from someone who, was a plant on this site by big  tobacco to try to convince people that smoking e-cigarettes was a form of quitting.  Dale, I want to thank you for standing your ground against these propagandists in a diplomatic and straight up way.  Vaping kills.  And this woman was praising vaping to the heavens.  My brother died of vaping and I will sing it to the roof tops, vaping kills.  Do I think that big tobacco would pay people to post on social media that e-cigarettes will help people quit smoking?  Yes I do.  And do I think that Big Tobacco is evil? Yes I do.  thanks again Dale.

[DonnaMarie]

Link? 

I'm not a fan of vaping. Not at all. 

[indingrl]

Sorry about your brother and hope you are ok.

[MarilynH]

Vaping scares the bejeebers out of me because of everything I've seen and read about vaping and the dangers of them blowing up in someone's pocket or face and possibly getting popcorn lungs I say N.O.P.E to vaping and N.O.P.E to smoking and YES to Smokefree living, thank you Karen, I'm so very sorry about your brother huge caring hug coming your way .......

[karenjones]

sorry DonnaMarie‌ I can't seem to find it. JonesCarpeDiem‌ do you remember it.  A woman was a secret smoker and used to drive to a cemetary to smoke and then just got so disgusted she threw the pack over a wall and then went back and tried toget them.. she was pregnant and had a miscarriage, her husband was trying to quit too, they decided to go to the vaping shop and got a disposable 10 e-cigarette and she was smoking one a day so they both decided to get the non-disposable type and then it was just glorifying e-cig to high heavens AND trying to encourage others to use it too, because , she said, it helped her to quit cigarettes and how she loved it ... and on and on.  Dale said to her if you are smoking e-cig you are still smoking, she got real pissed at Dale, called him rude, got some other e-cig people to come on site and tried Bullying  Dale and another woman , but they stood their ground.  It was a long blog that she wrote and in the beginning you kinda felt for her, but then you could tell, she had no intention to quit smoking and was just pimping e-cigs.  sorry I cannot find it again.  I wouldn;t even know how to point you to it if I did find it.  i do think she worked for big Tobacco.

[YoungAtHeart]

I am tagging this with a @mention so Dale sees it:  JonesCarpeDiem‌.

[karenjones]

/blogs/ncolwell-blog/2014/04/29/quitting-smoking-using-an-e-cig-personal-vaporizer-pv   i finally found it by going back and seeing what activity was done 3 hours ago copying and pasting, now read this and tell me if you think this woman worked for the vaping companies.  it is an interesting blog and the comments are evenmore interesting. PV indeed!

[Sootie]

karenjones‌   DonnaMarie‌  YoungAtHeart‌

Just wanted to point out----maybe you already noticed but this was a very old blog....from 2014.

[Jennifer-Quit]

I absolutely do believe that some of these posts are from "plants".  Does not take very long to spot them when you are present on this site fairly often.  This post is old and the user account has been deactivated.  I am anti-vaping - I believe that it is just as addictive and harmful as smoking. Much thanks to Dale and others who devote so much time and energy here to keep this site clean and useful!     

[JonesCarpeDiem]

It's not freedom. That's what they never tell you. You're the same ******* slave to nicotine.

Going from smoking to vaping isn't giving up or unlearning anything.

Harm reduction was their cry

No long term studies to verify.

People can do whatever they want but why the personal need to convince others to vape.?

[karenjones]

That is just what I thought, that she was promoting vaping.  i am glad you held her feet to the fire.  posts like that give people the wrong impression. 

[karenjones]

yes,  and it came up in the jbottom of someones blog where they put related blogs... I think it should be removed if the account is deactivated.  but oh well.  it is really misleading in my opinion and will not help anyone, but might hinder

some.

[YoungAtHeart]

I am going to @mention Mark‌ because I agree this is one that should not continue to be offered up.

[CommunityAdmin]

YoungAtHeart‌

Thanks for pointing me to this post. I don't think I can prevent posts from deactivated members from being suggested. I'll look into it but I cannot make any promises.

karenjones‌ We don't remove content unless it is certainly spam. Removing content removes the comments as well.

@all

I don't think that @ncolwell is a spammer. In looking through their posts(I looked through several but not all) they really didn't have the MO for typical spammers. She clearly put in more effort than a spammer. Yes, they did have a different opinion than others on the site. Viewing from an impartial viewpoint, I'm not sure they were treated fairly.  Possibly as a result, they asked for their account to be deactivated(2014 prior to my arrival) and have not since(2017) logged on from what I can see.  Realizing this, I have removed them from celebrating their milestones going forward.

Mark
EX Community Manager

[CommunityAdmin]

Jennifer-Quit wrote:

I absolutely do believe that some of these posts are from "plants".  Does not take very long to spot them when you are present on this site fairly often.  This post is old and the user account has been deactivated.  I am anti-vaping - I believe that it is just as addictive and harmful as smoking. Much thanks to Dale and others who devote so much time and energy here to keep this site clean and useful!     

Very very very little spam gets on the site anymore. For the last two years, I've caught over 99% of it before anyone sees it and remove it before anyone can even comment. On the occasion it does get through, members have been pretty good to report it and I clean it up.  It's been a little harder to detect when it's posted on their profiles however.

Mark
EX Community Manager

[Agilmore1964]

Dang Skippy. I bought a juul as part of my plan, it's working but in a weird way. Now I can't afford to buy cigarettes. When I take a bit odd the vape I'll get either hear palpitations or a sharp pain in my head. Aversion yes, but scary

[karenjones]

mark,  I do feel they were treated fairly and diplomatically.  they were promoting vaping as a true quit.  which it is not.  and saying how they loved it and planned to vape ever... as far as I know... the Ex community does not condone that does it?  Vaping forever??

[karenjones]

and it did kill my brother. in december and he vaped until the bitter end.  he was 49. my baby brother.

[YoungAtHeart]

Those are signs from your body that it is NOT liking what you are doing to it with the Juul, and it might even be dangeous.  Might you try the patch instead?  You can get a free beginning supply at 1-800-Quit-Now and also perhaps from your County or State Health Department - or a local hospital.  After the beginning supply, you might have enough saved from not buying smokes to buy them - I understand the generics (like Walmart) have better adhesive--and might be a bit cheaper.

Vaping is just substituting one addiction for another.  You aren't relearning a thing.  You are still getting nicotine, you are still repeating the hand to mouth thing.....

jmho!

Nancy

[Mike.n.Atlanta]

   Whether we agree with a comment or not, good or bad, true or false, no ones comments should be deleted. I have never & will never delete a comment in one of my blogs. This was the very reason I left the site that helped me in my quit. It came to a point where comments were deleted, partially deleted or  edited to explain what I "really meant", simply because they got to where people were offended because they only wanted to hear what they WANTED to hear, not what they NEEDED to hear. If this were to happen at EX I would do the same & bid all adieu.

   I think the poster in the mentioned blog was sincere in their beliefs that vaping is a way to quit & felt ganged up on. Therefore they became defensive & recruited the aid of some fellow vapors to come here & post the glories that are vaping. I surely don't think "Big Tobacco" had a hand in it though.

   I'm sure just about everyone here has lost someone to a smoking related disease. It is a sad thing & I'm sorry for everyone's losses. As for me I will not blame the tobacco companies. At what point do we take responsibility for our actions? I know it makes us feel faultless to shift the blame & all but I'm pretty sure we are the ones who made the decision to put one in our mouths & light up. It is a choice. I'm not making light of anyone's loss, just putting my opinion out there.

[CommunityAdmin]

karenjones wrote:

mark,  I do feel they were treated fairly and diplomatically.  they were promoting vaping as a true quit.  which it is not.  and saying how they loved it and planned to vape ever... as far as I know... the Ex community does not condone that does it?  Vaping forever??

@all

Though vaping may be safer than smoking combustible cigarettes it's not proven to be safe. We now have resources for people to quit vaping in addition to alternative therapies. And we're continuing to expand our resources for smokeless tobacco as well.

The EX Community is made up of members of people at all points in their quit journey, it is not the Truth Initiative. I don't think the community condones vaping forever. Ideally someone who is quitting does not vape long-term. Similarly someone who is quitting ideally wouldn't use lozenges, gum, inhaler, patches long-term either. That being said, someone who comes here and chooses to do should be allowed to be here. While their opinion may not by shared by the masses, it is really their choice at the end of the day.  If they're promoting it and soliciting usage of vaping through links, mention of brands or encouraging others to take the approach that they are taking, that is a different story. I didn't see any such promotion. We don't all have to share the same viewpoint on things but we should respect that others viewpoints differ from our own. Online communities only thrive when a variety of people exist. If everyone had the same viewpoint then I don't think it would be an interesting place to be.  As with all advice, no matter the medium by which you receive it, you must use your own experience and common sense to determine whether it works for you or not.  I will not simply remove or chase someone out of the community simply because their opinion or approach differs from the masses held here on the EX Community.  This is a welcoming and supportive environment for all.  Some people have direct paths to their quits and others are a lot more surreptitious in their journey. The goal is to be quit and to encourage them to be present to that goal and beyond, however long it takes them. Sadly, I get messages from people who come to EX looking to quit but are driven away by the approach they are met with. A few have shared similar feelings but have decided to stay but lurk more in the shadows and only interact with certain people. Thank you to those who have spoken up! I will say that the overall perspective of compassion has grown since my arrival 3+ years ago. (Prior to the community move I did some clean-up(removing hidden spam) and found some pretty disturbing interactions and read about groups of people leaving the site because there were ruckuses.) Some members choose to leave without providing a reason.  Still I believe there is a population of people who have an opinion but never share it and don't come back. I wish I had their voice as it gives me something to work on. My goal, from day one, has always been to improve compassion while sticking to the mission of helping as many people quit as possibly, however long it takes. Ideally the sooner the better but the more being the ultimate goal. I'll admit, on previous communities I've managed where I had a lot of expertise to share, there were times I got impatient and jumped to the solution rather than understanding the person I was connecting with first. I had to work to not jump to the conclusion and understand the problem before providing guidance. I was driven by providing as many solutions as fast as possible. I don't have the same expertise here on EX as I have in the past. Really the value comes from  you the members. But here on EX, the goal is helping people quit. Certainly we hope they quit as soon as possible but everyone's journey is different. The amount of time it takes is different. If they're not here long enough to make that decision to be quit forever than we've failed them in some way. There is a lot of wisdom here, a lot of experience too. Some will take longer to absorb that wisdom than others. And over time new wisdom and experience will be added and some will live on timelessly. Everyone here matters on EX no matter who you are, where you came from or what view point you have as you all have the goal of quitting your addiction.

Mark
EX Community Manager

[CommunityAdmin]

karenjones wrote:

and it did kill my brother. in december and he vaped until the bitter end.  he was 49. my baby brother.

I'm very sorry to hear that. I certainly understand your passion to encourage people not to vape.

Mark
EX Community Manager

[Jennifer-Quit]

Did not mean for my comment to sound critical in any way - there has been much improvement made in preventing spam.  I did state that this post is very old.  Sorry for the misunderstanding.

[sweetplt]

Vaping does Kill...and I think it is just another source of addiction...if we sit any really think about it...anything that is chemical and we breath into our lungs, can't be good...~ Colleen 98 DOF

[CommunityAdmin]

Jennifer-Quit‌ You're fine!  Just wanted to make sure that people didn't think we had lots of spam problems around here. Reading your post could have caused some confusion. 

Mark
EX Community Manager

[CommunityAdmin]

Mike.n.Atlanta‌ I appreciate your perspective. I think you captured some of the mentioned user's frustrations and also spoke for some who haven't spoken for themselves, publicly or otherwise.

Mark
EX Community Manager

[DonnaMarie]

I found it. I think it was from 2014.

On Sun, Mar 10, 2019 at 10:14 PM karenjones <communityadmin@becomeanex.org>

[Sootie]

THANK YOU MIKE!!! I ABSOLUTELY AGREE!!!

We all have free will.

We need to read ALL and decide for ourselves.

 I TRUST that people are able to decide what is bs and what is not.....in any case, as with quitting......it is a CHOICE.

MAKE THE RIGHT ONE.

[CommunityAdmin]

DonnaMarie wrote:

I found it. I think it was from 2014.

Yes it was linked in Karen's post below: https://excommunity.becomeanex.org/people/karenjones/blog/2019/03/10/thank-you-dalevaping-kills?comm... 

[VAPEASDEADLY]

Those cute little vuse solo's hooked me in. Nicotine is the addiction. But also very much the behavioral aspect .
had Quit smoking cigs 3 decades ago. picked after a divorce 15 yrs  PICKED to dip, QUIT, (FOR A YEAR) THEN PICKED the Vape.  Been on Vape for 4 yrs.
It's all nicotine.
I too was sucked into the notion that it was "safer" ..  That said, I understand How people would think NRT's can help.
But generally if they are like me, people wouldn't go through the effort of titration and reduction,  because Nicotine "OH NO YOU DON'T!"

6 Days into a quit from a 24-36mg per day vuse/vibe habit..

As an aside, I will describe a bit of the last 6 months. to include serious weight loss from nicotine over use. Anxiety begain rearing it's head. Along with consistent coughing, and throat clearing.  Add to that the crazy ass crap we tell ourselves. I think for me, it exarcerbated sinus issues, and health issues all along. Safe?

I am a noob, with the site.  saw this and thought i'd share.

[elvan]

VAPEASDEADLY  Thanks for sharing your experience.  Clearly, you know what you are talking about.  I am really glad that you are here and that you are able to support others going through recovery from vaping.

Ellen

[IrishRose]

JonesCarpeDiem‌ , @mark , I do hope that EX does NOT promote vaping as an NRT.  I know I disappear from time to time, but I always return, and I am here to tell you that vaping should not be promoted by EX.  If someone wants to use it to get away from smoking cancer sticks, and it is a permanent way for them to do so, they do need to be called out.  

Tough love is needed on this site a lot of times, and I thank you JonesCarpeDiem , for having the courage to call someone out for what goes on.  Big ((((((hug))))))) for you!!!!!

Mark my words, vaping will be found to be dangerous to your health in another ten or fifteen years.  It is not cool, and it is not a SAFE alternative to smoking.  Nothing that needs a heat source can be safe to your lungs!!!!!!

But, I'm not leaving over it.    Still going to be here!

Love you, Dale,

Irish Rose

[VAPEASDEADLY]

@elvan Nicotine is nicotine is nicotine, irregardless of the pathway we use it in.
For ME, There absolutely NO Difference, smoked, vaped, dipped, chewed,injected or ate.  
(including NRTs, containing nicotine)
I bought into the safe thin which lead into a 4 year love affair with Vuse Stick.
I'd rather have frontal lobotomy than a bottle in front of me not.

Nic is the bottle. We do not need it. It needs us to think we need it. It not symbiotic it is parasitic.

[Mike.n.Atlanta]

Agreed that vaping is dangerous Colleen but where do we draw the line at telling people they can't have what they want. Alcohol kills, are you gonna demand that I not have my beer or a whiskey when I want? Vaping is legal & they can use it in any way they see fit. When using vaping as an NRT very few have dropped the e-cig. That's not our problem. Our job is trying to get them to quit smoking in any way they feel best. Some quitters have suggestive minds & others are adament they do it their way. I know as an addict that I would push back at any suggestion that I should quit. When I decided to quit I pushed back at those that told me I needed an NRT, that I couldn't do it without one.

Our members aren't hating...they're telling people what they need to hear.

Mn@ 5,277 DOF

[CommunityAdmin]

IrishRose wrote:

jonescarp.aka.dale.Jan_2007 , Mark , I do hope that EX does NOT promote vaping as an NRT.

We do not promote it. It's simply listed as an alternative therapy. See comment above.

IrishRose wrote:

I know I disappear from time to time, but I always return, and I am here to tell you that vaping should not be promoted by EX.  If someone wants to use it to get away from smoking cancer sticks, and it is a permanent way for them to do so, they do need to be called out.  

The thread was from 2014 so we don't really know. They're not on the site any longer. Information has changed. Their opinion may have changed. We don't really need to know. They ultimately have to choose for themselves. We do not dictate what any of our members choose to do with their own lives. From what I can tell they were talking about themselves. Ideally, yes, if they choose vaping they use it for a short period of time before becoming completely nicotine free. Although if given the choice between combustible cigarettes and e-cigarettes, it seems better that a person use an e-cigarette rather than get attacked and somehow return to smoking combustible cigarettes. I don't see any problem with suggesting that it isn't probably a good long-term strategy but it's not anyone's right to "call someone out" in any spectacle about their personal choices. Many times it's how you say it and not what is said.

IrishRose wrote:

Tough love is needed on this site a lot of times, and I thank you jonescarp.aka.dale.Jan_2007 , for having the courage to call someone out for what goes on.  Big ((((((hug))))))) for you!!!!!

There are times that I have seen people here ask for tough love after initially asking for compassion. There are times also where I have seen people provide unsolicited tough love and it pushed the person on receiving end away. Some of those people have come back and others never did come back. Sad! I've been fortunate to talk on the phone to at least two people who were pushed away from EX for a period of time by tough love and came back. Thank goodness! Some people leave without saying anything. Others say something to me privately. And some leave in a public way.  No matter which way you cut it, it makes me extremely sad to see someone come for help and end up leaving because they don't feel like they fit in. I want EX to be a place of inclusion and acceptance. The members will choose to quit ultimately when they choose to do so. We have members of all walks of life. Across the globe. From different cultures. It's a big beautiful quit.  The community is big and there is room for everyone to come here and do their quit how THEY choose.  Each person's journey is unique.  BecomeAnEX evolves too and we incorporate new information into our site as it becomes available. From research we've done and from our partnership with Mayo Clinic we're continually adding more into BecomeAnEX.  After someone has freed themselves of tobacco/nicotine hopefully they will choose to give back to future addicts and help them with their journey within the virtual walls of the EX Community or elsewhere in the world. We've had at least 1 and maybe 2 people who have used their quit journey on EX to start a new chapter in their life and become or start the process of becoming a Tobacco Treatment Specialist.  That's so cool!

If you've been here a while and you think back to when you first arrived you probably had some feelings of uncertainty.

It's challenging to join any online community. Each community has their own norms, accepted practices, groups of people and such. For this community specifically, they're in a new environment, with new people who they don't have any history with or understanding of who the person is. They don't see all the amazing unique people here who have given a lot of time back to new people, they just see words, usernames and avatars.  They haven't been in the same room at an EX Weekend to feel the love and care that I have. I knew there were a lot of amazing things happening here but I didn't understand how amazing people were until I met them in the flesh. New people who come here don't understand their addiction, they're likely lacking support in real life, they may have relapsed countless times before or never ever quit even for a day, they may have trouble with their health, their work, family, home. They may already be dealing with withdrawal or anxiety about withdrawal or losing their "friend". With all this going on in their head, then they get overwhelmed with enthusiastic opinionated person helping them. They're at the beginning of their journey and not ready to hear the solution. All too often they're thinking they want to go through it with someone who is at the same point. And yes you may start with a group of people who have the same or approximate quit date but you may end up with a forever quit date that is with a completely different group. Only until you get a year or more in do you really know if your quit date is really shared with others and who those people really are.

IrishRose wrote:

Mark my words, vaping will be found to be dangerous to your health in another ten or fifteen years.  It is not cool, and it is not a SAFE alternative to smoking.  Nothing that needs a heat source can be safe to your lungs!!!!!!

But, I'm not leaving over it.    Still going to be here!

Love you, Dale,

Irish Rose

You may be correct. Time will tell as more research is being done. And as I mentioned previously in a previous post, Safer does not equal safe.

I certainly hope you don't leave. Everyone here has value. I don't want anyone leaving because they don't feel EX is the place for them to venture through their quit journey, however long it may take.  EX has one goal,to help people quit in whatever manner they choose. We provide the environment, the evidence based research and other tools to facilitate the process, it's up to the member to use what's available to assemble an effective quit plan and journey for themselves.

Mark
EX Community Manager

[sweetplt]

I am sorry .Mike.n.Atlanta ... you are right , I am wrong ... I just want to help others quit any way they get there is up to them ... no judgement ... I hope you accept my apology I don’t like to upset anyone ~ Colleen 101 DOF

[sweetplt]

Mike.n.Atlanta I never said no one can use it...I think you may have meant someone else...

[IrishRose]

Mark, I am not even going to respond to what you have written.  I do want to mention one sentence that you said though...    

"We do not promote it. It's simply listed as an alternative therapy."

Go figure!

Take care,

Irish Rose

[Mike.n.Atlanta]

My reply was based on your statement of vaping being deadly & addictive.

Apologies if I was misunderstood.