Respect Is Two Way Street

[JonesCarpeDiem]

Respect Begets Respect

      When people point you in different direction, don't attack them for trying to redirect your thinking.  There's no need to leave comments on other posts about how you felt you were treated badly. That further distances you from your goal and is similar to going around mommy by getting daddy's permission and pitting one parent against the other.

      No one who has been here long term is out to disparage anyone.

      Deleting your content shows a lack of respect for those who took the time to respond and attempt to help you. Your prior interaction (history) is the only way you and we can see your progress and know what's been said so we know better how to help you.

      Occasionally, mistakes in assessment or responses may be made or misinterpreted. You control your feelings not us. As Diane Joy says, "Take what you need and leave the rest."

   "Grow a backbone. A wishbone won't cut it."

(paraphrased from Tommy.)

   No one can make you fail but you.

[elvan]

Thanks, Dale.  

[Sootie]

Thank you for this blog, Dale!

I was JUST about to write one of my own on this exact theme when I saw yours.

While I realize that quitting smoking makes people emotional......there is nothing about quitting smoking that makes you irrational or unable to control your thinking.

You are still walking around, right?

You are still working, driving, shopping, right?

I don't think you can run someone over on the street and tell the police you aren't responsible because you are quitting smoking. TRUST ME---they are going to use some tough love with you.

The commenters on this support site are real people who also are in all stages of quitting and in all stages of life and all of the crisis and joy that goes with that. They are REAL people with REAL feelings that can also be hurt.

Take a deep breath and remember..........................everyone here is only trying to HELP YOU!

[Showiestodin]

Respect and sincerity should be required as part of our internal and external dialogue.  

[elvan]

Showiestodin  That is really good...

"Respect and sincerity should be required as part of our internal and external dialogue." I think a lot of us forget the internal part.  

[umalala]

JonesCarpeDiem‌

I think there is some validity in your post but I don't think you're considering everything.

People may not realize that they're deleting other people's posts or comments when they delete.  They could just be struggling and are sensitive. They may not be confident and when they're not met with care and compassion they just want to remove themselves from the site. Deleting their things is the only way they feel they have control over it.  If what they said isn't "here" anymore, then they can't be judged for what they've written.

Rather throw blame fully on them and say "I was only trying to help!", we need to reflect at our own behavior and be partially responsible.  The average person doesn't come here and read all about "Dale" or scour your profile to realize how much time you really spend here or how many people you've helped.  They come in and read things and get a sense for what's happening. How are people interacting. What topics are popular and what happened in those topics. Etc.  We're all responsible here for the communities "first impression" if we set the wrong tone then we are responsible as "participating members" for making the site less effective than it could be. 

Quitting is real and raw. I don't think that the site should lose that. It's important but we must also think about how we get people and keep people.  If we're acting in ways that is not encouraging them to join then we're failing.  If we're getting people to join but then they're leaving because of our approach, then we're partially failing.  This is an online community. Personalities will clash. They're no doubt, but there is also a great opportunity for people to exist here despite their differences.  There is plenty of room for people to be here and not bump shoulders if they can't be nice to each other.

Quitting is a journey, no? Everyone's quit is different, no? As far as I know quits can take several attempts. Not everyone is built to be successful their first time.  Not everyone will educate themselves properly the first time but everyone came here for a reason. They came here to quit whether they were really serious or not, they came here. That is a gift.

Is the important thing that they quit quickly or that they quit?  To me it's that they quit.  Yes, sure, a quick forever quit is ideal but it's just not going to happen for some. That's okay, it's more important that they quit.

No doubt, there are serial quitters on the site.  They come back time after time. Why? Because they found some aspect on the site they liked. They want to be quit but they just haven't found the right combination for them to be successful.  If you're bothered by someone coming back time after time, avoid the people who are serial quitters. Leave them be. Let someone else who has a higher tolerance and more room for compassion interact with them.  There are other people who will appreciate and value your time and tough love, if they're ready for it.  So post without any expectation that the person you're responding to will correctly absorb your advice RATHER post with the thought that you're helping someone who will read in the future and it will be a pivotal point in their quit. If the person you're responding to doesn't like what you have written move on.

I actually think this community should start a new thing when they interact with a noobie. These questions would be entirely voluntary (and should be phrased that way) but would help people get closer and hopefully get people to be more receptive to listening sooner.

1. Ask questions to get to know them. Many of the new people don't have completed profiles or profile pictures. Why not find out something about them? They're new and we hope they stick around so why not invest a little energy into getting to know some of these new people before jumping into helping them.  We're all strangers and we need to build some trust before our ears open to listening.
   1. Have you ever quit before?
   2. Struggling with any other addictions that we should be aware of?
   3. Why are you choosing to quit now? What's your motivation?
   4. Have you relapsed? If so, how many times?
   5. Are you using Patches, gum lozenges, spray, medications?
2. Ask if they are looking for compassion and understanding or tough love. If they are asking for compassion, then respect that until they say otherwise.
3. Find out if they have used other methods before? Websites? In-person support groups.
4. Have you educated yourself on your addiction? Have you searched on the site?

Be upfront on what this community is and how it operates. I think there are a lot of assumptions that people just understand how this community supports each other.  They don't.  One way to help would be for the people who tend to be the first responders, to record a video and include a link in your "welcome posts". I think mark posted a request recently /blogs/Mark-blog/2017/08/04/call-for-videos-tell-us-what-ex-means-to-you?sr=search&searchId=345022ed...?‌

Okay this has gotten a bit long-winded but I think that we need to re-evaluate as a group that one approach won't work for everyone.  We need to consider that each person is different and how we do things will vary some, depending on the person. We need to find a way to be compassionate while still keeping the authenticity.

If we expect others to own their quit we need to own it and be able to apologize when we make the wrong turn. It's better to apologize and keep them than to be stubborn and lose them.

NOMML: Not One More Member Lost

Muhamed

Free since 8/3/17

[JonesCarpeDiem]

All Good Ideas. You sound more like an admin sent in by the "company" than someone who's been quit a week. I don't tell anyone how to quit. I tell them what I've seen. I point out milestones to look for. I try to keep people on track based on what I've seen. I've often asked pretty much the same questions of new people that you suggested. Good Luck with your quit.

[YoungAtHeart]

Yes - who ARE you? 

I, for one, do NOT appreciate being instructed on how to behave or respond.  I am, after all, someone who has been volunteering my time to help people quit smoking - and have received MANY thanks for my assistance over the years.  I might ask if you can say the same.

Nancy

[MarilynH]

I'm also quite curious who you are too? You do sound like you're here through administration but if not and you really are quitting smoking then you should read everything you can about quitting smoking and Remaining Quit because that's what this community is all about! Sorry I wrote in the reply to you Nancy but Oops! YoungAtHeart 

[elvan]

umalala  Please keep in mind that the elders here are volunteering their time and experience to help others...not to make things harder and certainly not to stand in judgment.  No one is here to make things harder and all of the observations and advice you gave are the same as what we try to say to newbies.  None of us want anyone to leave...we don't do this for any reason other than to offer support to people who are quitting.  Take it easy on the elders, we respect everyone here and we certainly do everything we can to convey that and the fact that we know how hard quitting can be in the beginning and as we move along.  Pay attention to the positive responses from people and you might get a better look at the people you seem to be judging.  Wherever you are in your quit, we support you, we all ask only for that in return.

Ellen

[JonesCarpeDiem]

I've only seen this "person" post on two posts and they were this response and to a response I made on the link below and have been posted a week or more apart.

Because of the way they write, the suggestions, etc.,  The screenshot below would indicate to me they're an administrative sock puppet trying to course correct the community in a back***ward way.  I already know one our most valuable elders who is leaving town.

https://excommunity.becomeanex.org/blogs/Owlfeather-blog/2012/07/31/timefor-the-annual-elder-appreci... 

[MarilynH]

I noticed that too Dale on the elder appreciation blog! About the moderation and it felt off to me! 

[Sootie]

All good points. But, as I said, although I credit your post as good thoughts, and I am sure you believe and stand by them.....I also stand by mine. I "understand" why people delete........but "understanding" doesn't mean I have to approve of the practice. As I said, my thoughts are that we are talking to each other with our posts. So, I can't un-say words. I need to stand by them or apologize for them. Anything else is just......................dishonest. You can't "un-be" somewhere even if you want to.

Thanks for sharing.....discussion is the most important part of EX.

[CommunityAdmin]

JonesCarpeDiem‌ et al.

I use only this account and on a rare occasion a test account to test as a regular member when an issue arises.  The EX Team only interacts with you via the accounts you're aware of. 

I quickly checked and saw that Umalala has been a member of EX since November 2009 though I don't know on the exact date.  They recently joined the community however, so that is why their member since date is more recent.

Mark
EX Community Manager

[JonesCarpeDiem]

I've been here since August 2009 and never seen this username. They have no content.

[CommunityAdmin]

JonesCarpeDiem‌

It's actually not uncommon to see old accounts with activity for the first time. We've been seeing people who have joined a long time ago join the community for the first time and start participating.  Some didn't realize they had registered before but are finding the website again and others are possibly just lurkers previously but are now motivated to participate. We've also have seen some people who were active a long time ago suddenly log in again for the first time in years and continue participating.  Sometimes when comments start on old blogs.

We didn't migrate any old accounts that didn't have content to Jive that were created before 1/23/2017. So anyone who created a BecomeAnEX account prior to that date but didn't participate in Elgg Community in any way wouldn't have a Jive account until they logged in, visited the community and accepted the community terms and conditions. This is why the account says July 28th 2017.

Hopefully that clears some things up.

Mark
EX Community Manager

[umalala]

Responding from my phone so I apologize in advance for formatting and spelling errors. 

I respect a lot of people on here for the dedication they have.  No doubt there is a wealth of experience and knowledge. 

I joined the community after just just being a reader for a long time because 1 I always relapse around 3rd month and secondly my company is considering using this site to help people quit. 

With how ive been treated I can't say I'd endorse this site despite all the great people and things that happen here. I don't feel encouraged to share my own quit journey. 

I dont always have a popular opinion but I will speak up for those underrepresented.  

I am an engineer struggling with an addiction. 

Muhamed

9 days free

[Giulia]

umalala‌  Muhamed, the most important thing is that you maintain your quit.  That's why you're here and that's why we're here.  To help you maintain your quit and to help ourselves do so at the same time.  It's a bit startling,  for those who have been active on this site for years, when a new person jumps in out of the blue and gives advice in an authoritative tone.  "We're all responsible here for the communities "first impression" if we set the wrong tone...."  That goes for you too.  Most new members introduce themselves and ease into the community.  You came in like gangbusters and started talking about what "we" should or should not do and presenting us with lists.  You have some good ideas and make good points. But the "tone" is a little off-putting.  It's like if I were a silent member of a club, never seen before and suddenly walked in and started giving advice to everybody.  Do you see what I mean?  (Please - this is not meant as an offense.  It's just my "take."  But it is sincere.)

There are some very good quotes coming out of this discussion.  

"Respect and sincerity should be required as part of our internal and external dialogue."

"Occasionally, mistakes in assessment or responses may be made or misinterpreted."  

NOMML - I hope that will include you. 

[YoungAtHeart]

:"NOMML"

No Onions, Mustard, Mayonnaise, Lettuce?"

[JonesCarpeDiem]

That still leaves tomato, buns, cheese and meat. I'm good with that.  🙂

[YoungAtHeart]

TBCM?

[Sootie]

For the sake of others in your company, I would suggest you reconsider. I credit this site with 95% of the reason I was able to remain quit (I did not come here until after I had already quit). I'm sure 5 % was me......But I had always been unsuccessful in the past. Not only have I quit, but the support and education I received here have made this quit different from any others......I no longer even want a cigarette. Most everyone on here is very nice....you just have to get to know us. We are all individuals quitting just like you. In that way we all have different personalities. Some you will get along with better than others.........but everyone is really here to help.

Hope you stay and hope you recommend this site to your company for others to quit.

[xjamarkx]

umalala‌ , thank you for posting that. Your entire post is so true. Amen I say.