Breaking GNU's

[whognu_1-2007]

Cox Hospital System of Missouri will no longer hire people who use nicotine beginning Nov 21.

That means any nicotine in their system from any source including any NRT’s and the ecig. It also includes people who live with smokers and test positive from being exposed to second hand smoke.

I have a feeling this is because they know most people using nicotine are or were smokers and could go back to smoking at any time causing future liability for their healthcare and retirement system.

What do you think about this?

Will other companies follow this example?

With all the monetary damage smoking costs our economy in the form of additional healthcare do you think it’s wrong?

If I was never a smoker, I would be upset that all this additional money was coming out of the national coughers (pun intended) for someone else’s choice to use nicotine.

Of course I smoked for 40 years so I can’t speak with a clear conscience.

I just did a search on google and there have been companies doing this since 2007.

Will your kids follow the example you've set and be smokers and forever eliminate their chances to work in the healthcare industry? With all the baby boomers hitting retirement and age related health problems, the healthcare industry may be the only game in town for employment.

"teach your children well" 

[smorgy8513]

I didn't know this could be legal!    I'm not saying it is a bad thing, guess I need to think about that more.   Like you, I don't have a clear conscience in speaking in the same way a never-ever non-smoker would.      Sure is a good thing that the nicotine is out of system soon after stopping.       But what is the next step?     "Have you ever been a smoker?"   that would support the fear that they might return to smoking.    Or "we will test you every week to make sure you never start smoking in your life".          

???????

[whognu_1-2007]

well, for the sake of quitting, nicotine is substantially out of your system after 3 days but can still be detected in your hair and by other methods so quitting for 3 days won't eliminate people from being caught trying to fool the system.

who knows how much further they may take it?

[Thomas3.20.2010]

More and more companies, especially in the Health Care Industry, are testing people for the substance found in your blood stream called Cotinine. If your found positive then you are given the option to quit smoking NOW or find another job. The total cost for Businesses is $278 Billion/ Annually! That;s a lot of dough! [See more in Know yur Enemy Blog today.]

[ninepatch]

I think it should be illegal to descriminate like that.  Next will be alcohol, sugar, Fat people not allowed, diabetics forget about it.  They have a right to say no smoking on their property and maybe charge more for insurance but to discriminate is wrong.  What the hell is going on with this country.  Smoking is not the only thing that causes health issues.  I really hope all quit smoking but this is going too far in my humble opinion. 

[whognu_1-2007]

I understand your point of view.

The thing is, we have to eat to live. There is no other way to survive.

Whether peoples metabolism's are different or they just overeat is a whole different ballgame.

BUT

We don't have to smoke to live. That is a choice.

[Thomas3.20.2010]

If you or a loved one has had a very delicate surgery or broken immune system, do you really want them EXposed to third hand smoke by health care providers? I don't!

[whognu_1-2007]

Oh Thomas, I'm certain they wash their hands and lips and lungs after they smoke. NOT

[Thomas3.20.2010]

Don't forget their acrubs...

[havoc2]

How do you (everyone reading this) feel about banning the sale of cigarattes?
Personally I think if they're going to keep shunning smokers, and using bitch tactics like this to attack the problem, they should altogether ban it.
Would it create a black market? sure, but it would prevent a lot of people from relapsing, and prevent others from taking the habit to begin with.
What about "my freedom to smoke"? addicts aren't free. We're chained to some nasty habit, we're discriminated against in most places, nonsmokers in society have become even nastier than smoking itself in many instances. So, it's not like we would miss out on something great.

[whognu_1-2007]

well, I've never met a smoker who wouldnt like to quit. They just don't THINK they can.

they have stopped themselves before they even start.

It's like emotional or sexual abuse in a family, because it tends to be passed down from generation to generation in a vicious circle

[Buddy12]

I'm not sure if this new policy is something to be celebrated or abhorred.

[havoc2]

WhoGnu, I agree, all smokers want to quit or are aware they must quit at some point.

Buddy, that policy is the same passive aggressive crap, they have been using against smokers for ages. It's a bitch tactic, and the fact the laws allow that kind of discrimination while still allowing the sale of cigs, is repulsive and hypocrite, so I for one abhor it.

[whognu_1-2007]

I think the fact that the tobacco lobby tells washington the way its going to be and pockets the profits off of killing people is what's off the hook.

they have a right to kill us by selling their product and yet its the exact opposite of society trying to stop the expensive carnage of the addiction.

there can't be any middle ground as long as this is the way it is

[YoungAtHeart]

I find myself agreeing with Ninepatch. .  I HATE Big Brother messing with MY choices It's the same as N Y banning large sodas.....so folks who want more just buy two medium ones?  I never intend to purchase a huge soda, and I will not smoke again - but where does it stop?  Will they next test for prescription pain killers, since they would indicate a serious health condition that also might affect the claims experience negatively?  How about HIV?  

I want BIG BROTHER to stay out of MY life and MY choices.  It's the principle.

Getting gingerly down from my soapbox now,

Nancy.

[Jordan-11-1-12]

I don't see this as discriminating or "big brother" contolling..... I see it as the rights of patients finally being upheld.  This is the medical profession and, since we are just beginning to understand how harmful 3rd hand smoke is..... well, don't people deserve to not be exposed to it by their medical professionals??

Nancy, I really don't think this can compare with banning large sodas.  If my doctor drinks a large soda and then comes in to examine me, it does not affect me.  Third hand smoke does.

[marilyn_marmac]

Where does it stop? I've have a lot of health issues (none of which were caused by smoking) and spend a lot of time in hospitals and doctor's offices. Not once have I worried about 3rd hand smoke!

I do worry about a lot of other things though. I worry my providers can't or won't spend enough time with my diagnosis because they have set time limits. Those time limits came about because of greed, not because of smokers.

I worry the prescriptions I am given will prove to be more fatal than the cigarettes I've smoked.  I worry about contracting Mercia or Hepatitis because the care taker is over worked because of greed, not smokers. So you see, I have many worries, but 3rd hand smoke is so low on the list as not to count.

I choose not to smoke, that is MY choice. I do not have the right to force my choice on anyone else. Many vegetarians would say that as a meat eater I am harming myself, them and the animals around me. That is their right and their choice. I ate an egg this morning, my health issues make that worse than if I had went out and took a few puffs, but I made that choice and it was mine to make. No one has the right to make that choice for me.

[Jordan-11-1-12]

My best friend since grade school never worried about third hand smoke, either.  All 3 of her kids have respitory issues and I honestly believe its from 3rd hand smoke.

Just because we're not worried about something doesn't mean that it isn't hurting us.

[Jordan-11-1-12]

No one is saying that a person can't smoke.   Just that they are not allowed to then work with sick people in their hospital.  Its not always about the smoker, but those who are being harmed by the other persons actions.   

A person has a right to smoke, ok.  But a person has a right to medical treatment without being harmed further by their care giver.   Who's rights are more important???

[ninepatch]

Nicotine gum is not third hand smoke. Alcoholic choose to drive drunk killing thousands and thousands of people. Ban alcohol. Texting and driving kills. This hiring practice has been going on for years. Many places do not hire smokers. And actually have them sign contracts

[Jordan-11-1-12]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUUVELmkylQ

[Jordan-11-1-12]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59_IZJppQgc

[Jordan-11-1-12]

i believe if a doctor showed up drunk, he would be fired.

[Thomas3.20.2010]

So you have a right to work - just not in the hospital I have a right to choose to use as a patient because my hospital of choice doesn't hire smokers. Where have I infringed on your rights? 

Actually, without this choice, you have infringed on my right to not be EXposed to 3rd hand smoke. Plus your hospital must pay EXorbitant costs for your addiction which they will pass on to me in the form of my hospital bill. I'm paying for your addiction!

[havoc2]

marmac, it does not stop. And the discrimination against smokers won't stop either.
To me society should choose, either ban tobacco, or stop the lynch mob mentality. I prefer the former because the addiction is harmful and I don't see the non smokers getting more understading of how addictions work and less uptight about it.
But WhoGnu is right, this is not going to happen any time soon; what will happen is that smokers will get more and more restrictions, to work, to socialize, etc (so much for not having big brother interfering with one's life choices), and these smokers will keep chained to their habit, isolated and defeated.
 

[whognu_1-2007]

well who do you think the tobacco lobbyists are paying to keep smoking going?

they are paying the greedy lawmakers we elected.

the people with healthy retirement packages and free health insurance for life are getting kickbacks from big tobacco.

i hate to think of our country as corrupt but many of the 1% didn't get there honestly and i would wager that alot of palms are greased to keep the cash flowing.

[YoungAtHeart]

I am not opposed to places of employment banning smoking during the workday on their premises, but I am opposed to them banning it also from my private life.  My life outside of work is none of their business.

Ahd, where will it stop?  Do you really think it will?  I wish I did.

Nancy