Boggled mind boggle

Discussion created by Gwenivere on Nov 28, 2018
Latest reply on Dec 6, 2018 by Youngatheart.7.4.12

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I did start my quit yesterday with the 7mg. patches and lozenges to help cravings. I think it was the worst night in my life. OK, a little dramatic there. But the withdrawl seemed worse than ever. I called the Quit Line for WA and they said it did sound like intense withdrawl. While I was out today I bought 14mg. patches to try Friday as I have no obligations. I’m loony enough from this to inflict that on unsuspecting innocents.

I know the goal is no nicotine but I know me and have to have help before I tackle that. I’m curious if anyone else here ever used NRT that was too low. The Quit coach just kept telling me it was up to me, which is true. She recommended more lozenges, but they cause nausea if you take them too close together. Digestion is trashed as it is. I’m sick of taking showers for the sweaty feeling too. No sweat, just the feeling.

My poor dogs. Their living with a crazy woman!

Outcomes

36 Replies

JACKIE1-25-15 Nov 29, 2018 12:06 AM
Sorry, Gwen, I don't have an answer. I searched but could not find the anything related. Someone should be along to help. In the meantime, I will try to keep searching to see what I can find. I do know that your usage is based upon the number of cigs you smoked before quitting.
- Weeks 1-4: You’ll wear a nicotine patch that delivers a strong dose of nicotine — for example, 15 to 21 milligrams (mg) per day.
- Weeks 5-8: You’ll switch to a weaker patch, one that may deliver 5 to 14 mg per day.
- A Guide to Using the Nicotine Patch | Everyday Health
- https://reference.medscape.com/drug/nicoderm-cq-nicotrol-nicotine-transdermal-999319
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virgomama Nov 29, 2018 1:09 AM
I have no answer for you either, Gwen. It doesn't seem to me the 14 mg patch would hurt to try. Your withdrawals are driving you crazy anyway. If your goal is not smoking for right now keep working it until you find a dose that safely works for you. I know what your'e saying about the lozenges, because the gum does the same thing. I couldn't chew it very long. sure wish the patch was working better for you. Maybe the 14 mg will.
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Deena-A.-Yenni Nov 29, 2018 6:39 AM
Morning! I have nothing to add about the patch but do you walk the dogs or do they have a fenced in area? Perhaps getting your blood flowing couldn't hurt??
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Barbscloud Nov 29, 2018 8:18 AM
Congrats on starting your quit. Don't have any info on the patch strength. I used Welbutrin and nicotrol inhalers this time.
Barb
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desiree465 Nov 29, 2018 8:35 AM
It makes sense to me that maybe you're going too low on the patches if your withdraw symptoms are that bad. I too think it couldn't hurt to go up on the dose and see if that helps. You're not smoking tobacco and that's the most important thing so if you have to go up on the patches then so be it, nothing wrong with that.
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Youngatheart.7.4.12 Nov 29, 2018 10:21 AM
The patch dose depends on how much you were smoking when you quit. Each cigarette contains about 1 mg of nicotine. Try to match your patch dose to that. Your symptoms could be from too much nicotine, too.
A lot of folks here couldn't wear the patch to bed - they put a fresh one on in the morning.
This quit thing isn't easy and it takes resolve in the early days. It does get easier as time passes.
Hang in there!
Nancy
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elvan Nov 29, 2018 10:51 AM
I don't have any experience with the patch but I do think that of all the NRT's, it is the best because you are not slapping another patch on every time you feel like you need some nicotine. Congratulations on beginning your quit...it really does get easier. I am so sorry that your withdrawal symptoms are so intense. I hope you are drinking lots of water and trying to get whatever exercise you can tolerate.

Sending you a big hug.
Ellen
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jonescarp.aka.dale.Jan_2007 Nov 29, 2018 11:22 AM
The patch is the best.
No repetition connections every time you think of smoking.
Easier to get off.
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Gwenivere Nov 29, 2018 11:38 PM
I wish I could get exercise. It would help to dissipate the restlessness. Back problems put the kabash on that. I was volunteering today and it’s so painful walking around. Years ago I was all over that place, long halls, taking stairs, pushing more people in thier wheelchairs. Now I hobble and moan. I did up the patch by doubling up the 7’s til I bought some 14’s. I definitely have noticed when I stay busy it’s more tolerable. Even sitting down to catch up here or do personal mail I get edgy. I get anxious which mimics the hot feeling from withdrawl. I’m not doing well figuring out what to do with the free time. Lots of things I’d like to do, but they hurt too much. This is a terrible combination. I wish I could sleep thru this adjustment. Escape. I’m sure you’ve all heard it before. My body and mind are so confused about what’s happening to them. It’s odd to get accolades for doing something I don’t want to do.
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- virgomama @ Gwenivere on Nov 30, 2018 12:10 AM
  Maybe the saying "Fake it till you make it" fits here. You don't wanna but you gotta. So fake the wanna cause you gotta do this. Just keep marching You're going to get on top of this.
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- elvan @ Gwenivere on Nov 30, 2018 11:25 AM
  I get the pain, believe me. I ruptured three discs in my lower back and I have degenerative disc disease which has caused a severe scoliosis. Sometimes, the pain is so bad that I can hardly move...BUT, I DO exercise five days a week. I use a stationary bike that has a seat on it that allows me to lean back. It's a recumbent bike and I do ten miles a day when I work out. I was told that it would help my back to exercise and I remember how horrified I was to hear that because the pain was so severe that I did not think it was possible. I started a little at a time...instead of miles, I counted minutes and I did some modified sit ups from my bed. The doctor suggested that strengthening my core might help my back. I am not going to tell you that I feel great...pain wise but I DO feel like I am getting somewhere. I remember wanting to sleep through the beginning of more than one quit. THIS quit was different because I was so sick that I just wanted to LIVE through the beginning. You really CAN do this and it WILL get better...one step at a time...baby steps count too.
  Ellen
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Gwenivere Nov 30, 2018 11:31 PM
Ellen, it just blows my mind the exercise you haveworked up to. I cleaned my fireplace that has lots of pillar candles and a mirror that doubles the light they put out. Paying for that today. Ran the cordless vac tonight after errands and I was pooped! I think the 14mg. patch is working better. I was able to deal,with some frustrating phone calls without crying unlike Monday on the lower dose. I keep having slips of a few drags off cigs I keep finding, but doing what the doc said....just keep going, don’t give up for the day. Plus punishing myself takes away from what e done.

Building one’s core is a great thing. I’m where you were that the suggestion of regulated exercise sounds crazy. Our problems are similar in some ways. I have scoliosis too and stenosis. There’s nongetting around the bone on bone and pinching the lumbar nerve creating intense pain. I can’t stand up straight anymore or walk without a bad limp. I couldn’t do a treadmill. Had a recumbent bike once, pre pain, and loved it. They look easy but aren’t. Kudos to you for your dedication. :-)
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- Deena-A.-Yenni @ Gwenivere on Dec 1, 2018 5:31 AM
  Please don't have the patch on when you're having those drags off those cigs. Very dangerous. Can't tell you why but it is. Soon your house will be rid of triggers. Very hard not to pick up and smoke a butt early on in your quit. You must be very strong not to have gone into a full-blown relapse. Kudos for you! I'm not sure on the rules for re-setting your quit date. An Elder can fill you in. Here's hoping your find no more butts today!!!
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- elvan @ Gwenivere on Dec 1, 2018 8:20 AM
  Yikes, are you talking about bending down and cleaning the fireplace? Bending over and doing ANYTHING is pretty much a guaranteed killer for me the next day. I have no trouble sweeping but when I have to bend down and use the dustpan, THAT is not nice. Last week at work, a table was off balance and I got down under it and replaced a shim that was supposed to keep it level...OMG, I got back up and almost started crying. I work on what I can do...I wish they could find a way to control the pain...yours and mine. They tried so hard to get lidocaine and cortisone into that nonexistent space. I find that my scoliosis gives me a one-sided muffin top and that is seriously aggravating! My bike really does help me, it releases dopamine and makes me feel like I have more energy. I got it from a post on Facebook for a used recumbent bike. I find there are a lot of exercise machines in thrift stores...LOL, that always makes me laugh because I had some that I used for a while and then said...not going to happen.
  
  Working on the core is HARD...but if it helps to reduce pain, I am willing to at least try. I think you are going to get this, I really do. It's not easy by any means but it IS doable.
  
  Have a wonderful weekend...I am off to work this morning. WooHOO!
  Ellen
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- Deena-A.-Yenni @ Gwenivere on Dec 1, 2018 10:05 AM
  PLEASE don't be wearing the patch when you are having those drags off those cigs. Very dangerous. I can't tell you why but it is. Soon you will be steady in your quit and balanced and have your house cleared of all "butts" to find. Very hard to not light up when your at the beginning of your quit.
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Gwenivere Dec 1, 2018 5:45 PM
I’ve been assured that even if I smoked a whole cigarette on the patch it is not dangerous physically. Just keep on keeping on basically and look at it as a slip. It could be dangerous to smoke the equivalent of the patch, but why anyone would do that eludes me as cigs are better. I also found out the patches don’t really deliver the amount they say, really about 80-90%. Add in the delivery is very different to your brain. I’m on my 3rd day of 14mg patches and feeling the worst ever. It’s not just the cigs, it’s pain like Ellen battles, the holidays, being alone and grief. The only one I know for sure will end is the holidays.
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- marciem @ Gwenivere on Dec 1, 2018 8:57 PM
  Gwen:
  
  #1. Where do you keep finding these serendipitous cigarettes that you keep taking puffs from? You quit smoking, they should no longer be available.
  
  #2. Just moving on like it didn't happen or matter makes it easier and easier to "slip" next time, every time. Use each time as a learning experience, as in "What will I do next time I encounter/find/trip over a cigarette to avoid smoking it?" I'm not saying beat yourself up, but own it and learn from it. And yes, go right back to quitting. Immediately.
  
  #3. Trivializing and minimizing smoking after you have quit by calling it a "slip" takes the seriousness of smoking away... "just a slip." No you didn't slip. A slip is an accident. Falling on icy or wet walkway, Calling a beast a breast is a slip (of the tongue). A cigarette did not accidentally fly into your mouth, lit, ready to puff. You should be accountable for your action of choosing to smoke if you are to overcome addiction. Smoking is always a deliberate choice, not an accident or slip or oopsie. Self-talk is very important. Smoking after quitting is a relapse. One puff, one cigarette, one pack.
  
  Sorry if I sound harsh. I had high hopes once you came to your (ex)quit date, and am sad to see you say you still puff given the opportunity. I have only the best wishes for you. I do have 6 years experience with the ups and downs, and ins and outs, of quitting smoking, and only wish to share them.
  
  ***and p.s. many MORE years of quitting/relapse/quit/relapse which isn't quitting, it's going for extended periods between cigarettes, thats all.. and not accomplishing anything.
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- Deena-A.-Yenni @ Gwenivere on Dec 2, 2018 5:52 AM
  Wow. I had not heard that at all. It could not possibly be good for you to smoke while wearing the patch. Maybe consider doing one or the other.
  
  I have chronic pain syndrome but are not in as bad of shape as you and Ellen but assured uncomfortable just the same. I too trudge along with my exercise and can attest it does get better and better with time and effort. Much much better. You too can get the same results.
  
  As far as being lonely you have found a new family to lean too. We are here for you. The good bad and ugly. The good stuff too!!! Like getting off the cigs!! Perhaps you could talk to an Elder about resetting your quit date or just keep blogging on here. There's a lot of good people here to help. Lots of good input. Cheers.
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- marciem @ Gwenivere on Dec 2, 2018 10:26 PM
  Dear Gwen,
  
  I’m sorry if you read or felt anger from my post to you, or felt trashed. I feel no anger. I was attempting to be forthright and honest with you, perhaps to shed some light on and correct what I have viewed as erroneous thinking on your part, which could possibly stand in the way of your building a successful quit. You are not the only new quitter I have seen with this so I write publicly to all.
  
  I do tend to speak/write in sarcasm and irony at times, and I’ll try to restrain that. I sincerely apologize for making you feel humiliated or trashed.
  
  The issues I’ve responded to you are:
  
  I feel it is very dangerous to refer to smoking while quitting as “a slip”, either mentally or verbally. Smoking while quitting is HUGE, it is MAJOR. Once you have quit, you have to make the decision to smoke, and act on that decision with deliberation (Unlike when we were just smokers and on autopilot reaching for a cigarette at any given chance.) I will reiterate this point as often as necessary.
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- marciem @ Gwenivere on Dec 2, 2018 10:24 PM
  #2 To quit smoking requires 100% commitment to the task of not smoking, in the beginning. Finding cigarettes and taking puffs from them demonstrates that the 100% commitment isn’t there yet. You’ve been given a lot of great advice of ways to avoid smoking and overcoming triggers.
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- marciem @ Gwenivere on Dec 2, 2018 10:25 PM
  #3 Yes, many people have had to do this quitting thing more than once, myself included. That should not be something to aspire to, nor used as an excuse. It is an excuse to fail. Failure should not be an option. Smoking should not be an option (see above re: 100% commitment).
  
  Regarding the life issues you are facing, with quitting it is important to keep the order of :
  
  You>>>quit>>>life . Meaning, don’t ever let life and its issues come between you and your quit. Nurture your quit like a baby, hold it close, don’t let any stress, strain, trigger, sadness, happiness, joy, sorrow, or pain come between you and your quit.
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Gwenivere Dec 2, 2018 4:09 AM
I am sorry to everyone that has been supporting me. The last three days I have cheated by a couple of puffs a day. The last thing I considered was by being honest, it would make anyone feel they had wasted their time. It’s with all your help I finally got on what, hopefully, be the right dose patch. I had endured weeks of perpetual withdrawl on 3 cigs and lozenges. I’ve never felt more miserable physically than I do now. I could say why I am clinging to this except control, but it isn’t. I see that. Doing this while juggling nonstop pain, an anxiety disorder and entering another gleeful holiday season alone as a widow is my only excuse. It doesn’t excuse the frustration I have caused you. I admire what all of you went through and freely shared. My deepest apologies.
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- maryfreecig @ Gwenivere on Dec 2, 2018 1:25 PM
  The only thing that makes me feel bad about your quit is that you feel forced into it. I hope and pray that you will have a personal breakthrough in which quitting becomes a win rather than another one of life's troubles.
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elvan Dec 3, 2018 12:38 AM
My sweet lady...you owe no apologies to us...only to your lungs and you body. You CAN do this and all that any of us want is for you to recognize it. We really do care.
Best,
Ellen
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beazel Dec 3, 2018 1:35 AM
Your mindset is a big part of your quit, in my opinion.

We do understand what you are going through, it's tough, but the only way to get over it is to go through it.

There are better days ahead....put in the work now and you will reap the benefits. You will have many positives soon.

Focus on those positives as they come, something as small as better skin helped me trudge through, my blood pressure improved in the first week (and I was on the verge of having to take meds).

Hang in there and most important...don't smoke - you can't quit & smoke at the same time.

Commit to the quit....Smoking Is Not An Option....no matter what!!

You can do this. One day at a time, one minute at a time, if necessary.

(Please throw away those cigarettes)
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Gwenivere Dec 3, 2018 7:07 PM
Thank you, everyone for understanding and not turning my picture to the wall. I am currently in the ER as I cannot breathe. Vitals seem normal, even O2 saturation, but I feel like I am suffocating. This is my 4th day on the 14mg patch and it feels worse. It’s causing anxiety attacks which I have had for 30 years. I don’t know if the quitting cigs is affecting that, but it sure is coincidental. My anxiety meds are not as effective. I thought I would just be dealing with cravings on the NRT. I had X-rays last Friday that showed stable for my lung condition. I’m scared. This is when I miss my husband and have the worry for my dogs at home if something happens to me. Have one 'friend' that will be very put out if I need her. Crazy as it sounds, I want a cigarette, but I don’t. I’m having to wait in the waiting room between tests as there are no beds available. I wish this were some bad dream, but no such luck. Sorry for the whine. It’s so hard to be alone in these things.
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- Youngatheart.7.4.12 @ Gwenivere on Dec 3, 2018 7:31 PM
  I SO understand about the toughness of illness/injury alone. I had to fly home alone with a broken wrist and elbow in October- from Denver to Baltimore with a 20 lb. cast on my arm, and had to manage after the first week after surgery on my own. It is true that what doesn't kill you makes you stronger. I am WOMAN - hear me ROAR!
  My wish for you is that you are able to become the strong woman I know is inside of you.
  Feel better; let us know what the tests show.
  And ALWAYS remember there is never a good reason to smoke; there are only excuses.
  Nancy
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Gwenivere Dec 3, 2018 10:39 PM
Think that was the fastest ER trip ever. Only 3 hours. Ruled out heart problems and any more lung damage. Interestingly the doc told me they have had other cases of people stopping smoking come in with shortness of breath. He could only speculate, but he thought that getting more oxygen now makes the lungs work harder than they were used to. Or at least differently. Now I just have to figure out how to deal with this as it’s quite frightening. But a little more knowledge and being checked out will help. Now I’ll have to Google it and see what comes up.
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beazel Dec 4, 2018 7:00 AM
Glad you are home. Don't know if Dr. Google is a very good idea??? Especially if you deal with panic attacks, but that's up to you.

I felt horrible for a few weeks at the beginning of my quit - chest pains and tightness, anxiety, mouth sores, just to name a few.
And I was a cold turkey quitter so I couldn't blame NRT's. It was pretty intense.

Happy you got checked out. Some have said their medications (especially anxiety meds) needed to be adjusted for awhile so I hope that you have spoken to your doctor about that.

One thing for sure is that smoking will not help any of the problems that you are dealing with and I sure hope you got rid of those cigarettes to eliminate temptation.

(((((Sending you good vibes)))))
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desiree465 Dec 4, 2018 7:22 AM
Oh my that's craziness. I've heard of people feeling worse as far as breathing goes when they first started a quit. Throw those old nasty cigs out if you're on the patch you don't need them gwenivere. I believe in you! Let us be here for you not the sick sticks. Let us know how you're doing today and when you wanna pick up a smoke let us know what you're thinking. When I would have a horrible craving or the anxiety was getting to me I would start writing a blog about how I was feeling, by the time I was done the feeling passed. We don't care if you write a thousand blogs a day, I would read every one of them.
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Youngatheart.7.4.12 Dec 4, 2018 9:55 AM
Do be careful reading about medical conditions on the internet, especially if you suffer from anxiety. Isn't shortness of breath one of the symptoms of a panic attack? I think I would talk this all over at a visit with your regular doctor.
Glad everything checked out in the ER and you made it home in record time.
Nancy
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Gwenivere Dec 4, 2018 10:41 PM
Shortness of breath is a symptom of a panic attack. I do plan on talking with my doctor and see if my meds need to be modified thru this. I know my body is in shock about what it’s being forced to change. I also was due for a B12 injection and found I was very close to the high end and that stuff can feel like speed. Yuck. It wil take days for it to drop.

Made ittoday thru my tempted to cheat times so far today. 3 more to go. Oh, and someone I work with offered me a drag the other day and I said no thanks. Working on it! Thanks everyone.
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- Youngatheart.7.4.12 @ Gwenivere on Dec 5, 2018 2:05 PM
  NO PUFF !!!!
  GOOD for you!!
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elvan Dec 5, 2018 4:55 PM
I remember how upsetting I found it when I would read blogs from people saying they had only been quit for 10 days or 2 weeks and they could already walk faster and had more energy than when they smoked. I never felt that. I agree with Youngatheart.7.4.12 about looking up stuff on the internet..my rheumatologist carries a coffee mug with her that says..."Your google does not match my M.D." I can see her cringe when people tell her they looked something up and it said...blah, blah, blah. Then again, she isn't overly enthusiastic when my primary care doc or my pulmonologist don't agree with her either. Ego is a dangerous thing.

I do believe you've got this, my friend, I am proud of you.
Ellen
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Gwenivere Dec 6, 2018 4:20 AM
I’m barely at a week with the patches and sure don’t feel any better. If anything it’s getting worse before better. I’ve read google sites of people raving how in a week things smelled and tasted better. I went.....hmmmmm.....are they making this up? But I did read others where people losing their minds too. I do pry myself off when I think of a question as it leads to others from triggers in them I never thought about. I like the coffee mug saying, most appropriate.

Thanks Ellen, 2nd day and no cheating!
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- Youngatheart.7.4.12 @ Gwenivere on Dec 6, 2018 9:53 AM
  I didn't notice all the good stuff after a week, either. Everyone has a different experience, I think.
  (btw - jonescarp.aka.dale.Jan_2007 has a line, "If you are quitting smoking and you are still smoking, you re doing it wrong.")
  Don't keep even the possibility of smoking another cigarette in your mind. One will ALWAYS lead to another. It's the law of addiction.
  Congratulations on TWO days!!!! Keep going!
  Nancy
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Boggled mind boggle

Outcomes

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